Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

From Islamophobic I got a link to a BBC radio interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I do not agree with her stance on the role of the state with regards to reforming Muslims, but she is a very impressive lady with a message. I met her once in the Groote Kerk in Utrecht and saw her from perhaps 30 meters distance without body guards. That was a year before Theo van Gogh died.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali Interview

She has tremendous charisma. And has a kind of vunerability. Listen to the interview. And notice her three last words with which the interview is ended.

8 comments:

Charles Martel said...

thanks for posting that.
and for all the "snouck is a racist hate" person - may i point out that ideologically i'm on the opposite spectrum to snock. i'm left wing.

but a left winger who doesnt buy into the "tolerate islam" crap.

but i'm a leftist in the non-marxist mould - a leftist from the catholic mould. social justice and all that stuff - jesuit wing . that sort of thing.

i thought i'd make that clear , in case there are any bloggers that make out that snouck is some sort of Nazi lovefest.

its not - he raises interesting questions about the future of Holland, and indeed the future of European civilisation.

even though there's a lot about snouck i disagree with - well thats democracy, thats freedom - and thank god we have a bit of that left. and here's hoping we have more freedom in the future.

Charles Martel said...

tour de force- the last 5 minutes of the interview - where she utterly deomolishes the idea of "multiculturalism"

basically she says, what is there to be multicultural about when freedom of thought and freedom to speak is a far superior state to anything that Islam has to offer. its powerful.

funnily enough - its takes an IMMIGRANT to say this sort of stuff. which makes it even more powerful than some Dutch nationalist like Snouk. Such is life i suppose.

As i've said on numerous forums, the apostates are our friends.

Winston Smith said...

Which makes it sadly ironic that Ayaan Hirsi Ali would probably not be allowed to enter the Netherlands if she were to arrive today.

How many more Ayaan Hirsi Ali's are out there, trapped in repressive Islamic theocracies (or, worse, sent back to them because they have been denied asylum) because the West is shutting its doors?

Snouck said...

Winston Smith:
"Which makes it sadly ironic that Ayaan Hirsi Ali would probably not be allowed to enter the Netherlands if she were to arrive today."

Snouck:
Life is full of sad irony. And even tragedy. There is no easy way out. Having all Third worlders immigrate to the West would not magically transfer the benefits of the West to these people because of a little document of magic coming up from the soil.

Winston smith:
How many more Ayaan Hirsi Ali's are out there, trapped in repressive Islamic theocracies (or, worse, sent back to them because they have been denied asylum) because the West is shutting its doors?

Snouck:
That is tough. There is no European country though that has let more people in than The Netherlands. And that is why the population stopped co-operating and became hostile to immigrants from the Third world, not just Muslims. The political cartel kept its eyes shut for the problems of the blue collar workers due to immigration. Because the benefits and disadvantages of immigration are not evenly spread thru the population.

The immigration enthusiasts are usually well off academics who see a needy proletariat that needs to be uplifted thru social programs (administered by them for a nice fee and with lots of interesting career opportunities) while the employers see a bounty of cheap labour to take advantage off. For the people at the bottom rungs of the labour market, the working poor it means depression of their wages and depletion of resources set aside for them. Plus a violent and hostile and culturally alien environment to live in. Meanwhile employers and the well educated middle class left hide increasingly in gated communities, pretending not to notice, the sudden "Brazilian" appearance of society and branding all dissent as Nazi justifying repression.

Police State anyone?

Charles Martel said...

"Police State anyone?"

thats happening right now in the UK, step by step, with increasing powers for the police, under the guise of "anti terrorism".

Winston Smith said...

"There is no European country though that has let more people in than The Netherlands."

Really? Not even the UK? Not even France?

I find that claim very hard to believe.

Camera Lucida said...

To Snouk:

Hirsi Ali has brought herself into an interesting quagmire within the Dutch society, and an incessant amount of worry and needless admiration by the Dutch people.

Here are some of the problems with her arguments and situation:

1. How far are the Netherlands (Canada, the United States etc…) to go to help Muslims reform themselves? And why should they?

2. Muslim reformation is actually impossible, to remain Muslim. The only option Muslims have is not change anything (Killing apostates is mandated by Mohamed via the Koran – which is a non-negotiable, absolute order and thus cannot be reformed – and so on with all of her other reform ideas).

3. If she had really read up on her Islamic history, the Koran etc. instead of getting involved in the freedom of speech/ freedom of the individual /enlightenment/politica science world, she would have realized problem #2. In fact, it is quite inexcusable that she doesn’t even realize the inherent problem with her argument.

4. How far do her views really fall in with nationalistic, Christian heritage roots of the Netherlands?
- From what I’ve read of hers, she appears to be not too friendly to Christianity.
- Her “freedom” stance is actually freedom of the individual, brought together under freedom for women, and really has nothing to do with nation building – freedom of the nation?
- So her idea is really to have all these free people wonder around, whose only unity is their freedom.

5. I understand that one is meant to feel sorry for her, but her battles and positions have nothing to do with Holland and with Dutch society. What she is really saying is contradictory – it has to be since her arguments do not belong there: “Help us Muslims reform Islam [which is unreformable], and do not put us into multicultural ghettoes.”

But, where does reformed [but remember it is unreformablable] Islam fit into Dutch society? And why should the Dutch/Canadian/American society reform Islam in the first place?

I wish her all the best. She would have done better to have stayed in her own country. Now, Dutch people have to worry about her and her impossible prepositions.

Winston Smith said...

"She would have done better to have stayed in her own country."

Or moved to England.