Thursday, November 10, 2005

Marco Pastors, a Fortuyn disciple and Rotterdam city counciller loses his seat in Islam Fracas

One of the surviving remnants of the Fortuyn revolution is the coalition of Christian Democrats and Fortuynists in the Rotterdam City Council. Three of the councillors on the Rotterdam City Council belonged to Leefbaar Rotterdam, or livable Rotterdam. Belonged, because one of them has abdicated yesterday after the Christian Democrats removed their support of Councillor Marco Pastors.

Pastors had compared Caribbian Black Criminals with Morroccan Criminals and come to the conclusion that the Caribbian criminals are equal opportunity offenders, who rob, rape and murder everyone without preference of race, nationality or creed, while the Qoran inspires Moroccans to just rob non-Muslims as part of the obligation of Muslims to loot and tax ("Jizya" or "protection money" based on Sura 9 verse 29 of the Qoran) non-Muslims. The article was an interview published in IDee, a newsletter for Rotterdam Roman Catholics.

As there had been an agreement between the coalition partners not to bash Islam the furor that these comments caused, was heavy enough for the Christian Democrats to drop their ally.

Because of the upcoming elections in 2006 the move is not disagreeable for Livable Rotterdam, because not only gives it the opportunity to profile themselves as martyrs of Freedom of Speech, but also it gives them more freedom to campaign in the coming months unrestrained by coalition responsabilities and agreements.


Esther said...

I've read his interview, but he seems to be confusing two different things.

For example, being anti-homosexual is not something that's confined to Muslims. Neither is marrying within your religion. However, striking out at other faiths is confined to Islam.

I think that it would be much more helpful if he stuck to what really matters and made sure he has his facts straight.

Snouck said...

well, I had to read the statement from Pastors and your remark several times. I think what Mr. Pastors made insufficiently clear is that Muslims are ordered by their faith not to accept other authority apart from religious law. This makes the Islamic community a collectivist body that blocks certain values that are essential to a liberal western society. Pastors makes it appear that this is by choice of the Muslims, while I think it is really by ordered by the Qoran and its absence of separation of Religion and State.

Anyway, he was answering the question of the interviewer. I think he has got his facts straight and if he had been clearer than he was now, the furore would only have been bigger.

That Islam is an aggressive religion is a point for us to consider, but for Marco Pastors to do his duty as a Rotterdam councillor it does not have to be essential. So I disagree with you on that point.

Esther said...

I do not mind facts. However, I do not know for a fact that Muslims steal only from non-Muslims. I can only guess at the truth of that statement.

According to the article on my blog, he only turned to verify his claims after the interview.

I think the issue with the Islamic community is not that they block certain values, but that they expect all others to accept and follow their own norms.

And btw - Muslim men are allowed by their religion to marry Christian and Jewish women.. so that 'fact' as well is not 100% correct.

Snouck said...

Well not all Muslims use the exegesis of Sura 9:29 in this way. So they will not agree with Muslims who do. The point is that many Muslims in the West may feel attracted to a preaching of the Islam that says that Westerners are the enemies of them and that it is not only a right but even a holy duty to loot and to tax them. What dissafected youth would be able to resist such a theology? It is the same with treating westernised women like whores and then to be justified in raping them. This kind of religious and cultural bagagge uses some of the stuff that is already in a men's (and not or less in a women's) nature and tells him "yes go ahead it is good and sacred".

And then you are right to point out that Islam expects the others to follow them. The thing is that in order to survive the opponents of Islam have to do the same thing. It is a fight of wills and all this "tolerance" and "Multiculturalism" only weakens the will.

Muslims will avoid those groups and societies that are self confident and ready to defend themselves. The Muslims will go for the easiest, stupidest and richest targets. So it is the best course for the opponents to strengthen their wills and arm themselves with knowledge. Thusly strengthened and armed they will invincible. :-D

Ha, on a lighter note, I was just called by a Muslim friend who was thrown out of a Morroccan Mosque in Amsterdam this week because the Mosque administrator thought he was a thief or a gun runner(he was carrying a suitcase with merchandise). So your point is certainly true for some Muslims.

And you are also right to say that Muslims are allowed to marry Christians and Jews, but I guess not with Pagans of Atheists. But the practise is that 75 percent of marriages of Muslims in the Netherlands is with a bride from the "home" country. Muslims often defend this as a religious duty but this is not correct, Mohammed had a Christian wife Maryam from Egypt and a Jewish wife as well I think.

Esther said...

I think every man can think for himself (or herself :-) who they want to marry and why. And every country can decide for its own whether they allow people to enter it or not.